When Was Jesus Christ Really Born?
The Shocking Pagan
Origin of CHRISTMAS!
What is the TRUE ORIGIN of Christmas? Where
did it come from? Did
you know Jesus Christ was born
nowhere NEAR December 25, but that was the “birth
day” of the sun-god, “Sol Invictus” or “Mithras”?
Did you know
December 25 was the concluding day
of the pagan winter festival called the “Saturnalia”?
Where did
“Santa Claus” come from? The “Christmas
Tree”? How did this
pagan feast become connected with
“Christianity”? Here is an amazing “whale of a tale”!
William
F. Dankenbring
Although the whole world celebrates
Christmas as a “Christian” holiday, including millions of non-Christians, is
Christmas really “Christian” at all?
Consider this fact: Look high and
low throughout the pages of the Bible, and you will find not ONE WORD of
“Christmas” being celebrated by any of God’s people! It is not even mentioned
once! Neither Christ nor any of His
apostles ever observed this holiday, nor the New
Testament Church!
Yet on the other hand the pagan,
heathen world observed this day for thousands of years before Christ was even
born!
Where
did the mysterious rites and ceremonies that surround this day come from? What about the “Christmas tree” and the “Yule
log” and the mistletoe and Holly wreaths?
Are ANY of these customs truly “Christian” in origin? And what about fat and jolly
old “Saint Nick” – or Santa Claus?
It’s high time we addressed these
questions, and took a new look at “Christmas.”
A church I was formerly a member of, which condemned Christmas
observance as paganism, for almost sixty years, today has turned its back on
its former beliefs, and encourages its members to observe this pagan mid-winter
festival “in honor of Christ”! Many are
doing so, heedless of the severe warnings in Scripture of what their eternal
fate and destiny will be if they continue to embrace this ancient custom.
Is it wrong to celebrate
“Christmas”? What is the truth about
this popular and widespread holiday?
The Origin of Christmas
Before one gets carried away with
Christmas worship, there are a few things you should know. Let’s take an honest and objective look at
the origins of this holiday.
We read in Werner Keller’s book The
Bible as History the following admission:
“December 25 is
referred to in documents as Christmas Day in A.D. 324
for the first time.
Under the Roman emperor Justinian [A.D. 527-565] it
was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival played a
major part in the choice of this particular day. December 25 in ancient
day of the winter solstice and at the same time, in
Saturnalia,
which
had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled
carnival . . .” (p.331).
Doesn’t it seem rather strange that the so-called
“Christian church” should choose a day to celebrate Christ’s birth which was
identified as the day of the birth of the unconquered sun, the day of the
winter solstice, the “shortest day of the year,” when the sunlit part of the
days start becoming longer again? What
does this have to do with Christ, anyway?
Was Jesus Christ born anywhere near December 25? Keller goes on:
“Meteorologists
as well as historians and astronomers have something of
importance to contribute to this question of fixing the date
of the birth of
Jesus.
According to St. Luke: ‘And there were
in the same country shepherds
abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by
night’ (Luke 2:8).
“Meteorologists
have made exact recordings of the temperature at
This
spot in the southern highlands of
conditions as
show over a period of three months that the incidence of
frost is as follows:
December
-- 2.8 degrees; January – 1.6 degrees; February – 0.1 degrees.
The
first two months have also the greatest rainfall in the year: approximately
6 inches in December, and nearly 8 inches in January. According to all existing
information the climate of
2,000
years, consequently
modern meteorological observations can be taken
as a basis.
“At
Christmas-time
Land
no cattle would have been in the fields in that temperature. This fact
is born out by a remark in the Talmud to the effect that in
that neighborhood
the flocks were put out to grass in March and
brought in again at the beginning
of November. They remained
out in the open for almost eight months.
“Around Christmas-time
nowadays both animals and shepherds are under cover
in
As we explore the time for the birth of Christ, we find He
was born nowhere near December 25, the very date the world has chosen to
celebrate supposedly, His “birthday”!
But there is much more to the story
than this. Let’s go on.
When
Was Jesus Really BORN?
Millions of ostensible “Christians,” or “nominal”
Christians, who think they are followers of the religion of Jesus Christ, have
been deceived. Not only have they
foolishly embraced erroneous “traditions” as if they were “Christian,” but they
have been lied to, misled by preachers and ministers and priests, and have
ASSUMED that they were worshipping Christ!
Yet Jesus Christ Himself warned:
“Howbeit IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, teaching for doctrines THE
COMMANDMENTS OF MEN. For laying aside
the commandment of God, ye HOLD THE TRADITION OF MEN . . .” (Mark
7:7-8).
The gospel of Matthew also records similar words spoken by
Christ. Notice! “Ye HYPOCRITES, well did Isaiah prophesy
of you, saying, 'This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouths, and
honoreth me with their lips; but THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. But IN VAIN do they WORSHIP me, teaching for
doctrines the commandments of MEN” (Matt.15:7-9).
Let’s look into this matter honestly. Let’s examine the evidence, seeking the truth. When was Jesus Christ born, anyway? Was it anywhere NEAR December 25? And if not, then why believe a lie, and
practice and perform a lie?
The birth of Christ is not known for
certain, but we can know the approximate time of year when He was born! In the book of Luke we read that the father
of John the Baptist was Zacharias, and he was a priest who served at the temple
in Jerusalem. He was “of the course of
Abia” (Luke 1:5). While serving at the
temple, he was informed by an angel that his wife was to have a son, who was to
be named “John.” After this, Zacharias
finished “the days of his ministration,” and “departed to his own house”
(v.23). “And after those days, his wife
Elizabeth conceived . . .” (v.24).
The names of the different courses
of priests that served at the Temple are given in I Chronicles 24:1-19. “Abia” or “Abijah” was the EIGHTH
course. According to the Jewish
historian Josephus, each one of these courses served at the Temple for one
week, the first course serving the first week of Nisan, in the spring
(compare I Chron.27:1-2), and then each course in its own order. All the priests served during the annual
festivals (Passover in spring, Pentecost, and then Tabernacles in the fall). After six months, the order would be
repeated, thus each “course” would serve two weeks during a year.
Let's notice the chronology of events. Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, served in the Temple twice a year, with his course, the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5-7), which was the eighth course (I Chron.24:7-19). There were 24 courses in all. Each course served for one week, in succession (except for weeks when annual Festivals fell, when all priests served together). Josephus tells us:
“But David being
desirous of ordaining his son king of all the people, called together
their
rulers to Jerusalem, with the priests and the Levites; and having first
numbered the
Levites
. . . He divided them also into courses; and when he had separated the priests
from
them, he found of these priests twenty-four courses . . . and he ordained that
one
course
should minister to God eight days, from Sabbath to Sabbath. And thus were the
courses
distributed by lot . . . and that course which came up first, was written down
first,
and
accordingly the second, and so on to the twenty-fourth; and this
partition hath
remained
to this day” (Antiquities,
VII, xiv, 7).
The course of Abijah, then, would
have served the eighth week in the rotation.
The eighth week from Nisan 1, leaving out the week of Passover, when all
the priests served, would have been IYAR 27 to SIVAN 5, the day just before
Pentecost, which generally fell on Sivan 6.
The eighth week in the fall rotation would have been CHESHVAN 26 to
KISLEV 2.
If Zacharias received his angelic
message during his first rotation, then, after serving a week in the Temple,
Zacharias would have remained another week in Jerusalem, because of the Feast
of Shavuot. Then, he would have returned
home shortly after this, and his wife then would have conceived. This would have been about June. If we add nine months to this date, the
normal time for the gestation of a human baby in the womb, John the Baptist
would have been born about February-March, not long before the Passover. But if Zacharias had been serving during his
SECOND rotation, in Cheshvan-Kislev, he would have returned home immediately
after the service, in early Kislev. Then
John the Baptist's birth would have been around August.
Jesus was conceived about six months
after John (Luke 1:24-31, especially verse 26).
This would suggest that Jesus Christ was conceived either about Kislev
in the winter, or Sivan in the spring.
Nine months from Kislev (approximately December) would place His birth
about the August-September. Nine months
from Sivan would place His birth in SHEVAT (corresponding to February!).
The first course began serving the
first week in Nisan. After six months,
the order of courses would be repeated, beginning the first week in
Tishri. Thus Zacharias served approximately
the first week in June, and six months later, the first week in December. Shortly after he served his assigned duties,
his wife conceived (Luke 1:5-13, 23-24).
Nine months later John was born.
So if we add 9 months to these dates, we find that John was either
born in around February, or August-September.
Jesus Christ was born six months
after John (Luke 1:26, 36). Thus
Christ could have been born either around August-September, or around February!
– just the opposite from John! Was Christ
born around February, or September? How
can we know?
Crucial Events Surrounding Christ's
Birth
We know that when Christ was born,
He was born in a manger in Bethlehem.
Shepherds, told by an angel of His birth, visited Him and found Him “wrapped
in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger” (Luke 2:12-17). Eight days later Mary and Joseph had Him
circumcised, according to the commandment (Luke 2:21). Mary then fulfilled the days of her
purification – which culminated 40 days after His birth (Luke 2:22-24; compare
Lev.12:2-8). Joseph and Mary were obviously poor, for the offering they offered
at this time was a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons (Luke 2:24;
Lev.12:8).
Sometime not too long after His
birth, the wise men visited Him, and gave Him gifts (Matt.2:1-11). When they arrived, they found him as a “young
child” (Matt.2:9, 11). He was no longer
a swaddling baby, but now a “young child.”
The Greek word translated “young child” is paidiske and means “an
infant or by extension, a half grown boy or girl.” Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon shows
it can refer to a young infant recently born, a more advanced child, or even a
mature child or partly grown children.
The chronology of Christ's birth, however, shows the family of Joseph
was no longer in a manger when the wise men visited them – for we read, “when they were come into the house, they
saw the young child” (Matt.2:11).
Their visit could have been around
30 days after His birth, or sometime before the time of His being taken to the
Temple, 40 days after His birth!
Immediately after this visit, and the Temple visit, Joseph was warned to
take the child and Mary, and to “flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I
bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child, to destroy him” (Matt.2:13).
“When he arose, he took the young
child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: and was there
until the death of Herod: that it might
be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt
have I called my son” (Matt.2:13-15).
Meanwhile, sickly, old Herod, seeing
the wise men had ignored his command to return to him after they found the
child, became enraged, and had every child in Bethlehem killed up to two years
of age, “according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise
men” (v.16).
Shepherds Sometimes in the Fields in Winter
What does this chronology of events
tell us of the birth of Christ? For
years, many of us have assumed and believed that Christ was born in the autumn
of the year. The major proof offered for
this was that shepherds were abiding in the fields when He was born, and
several ancient authorities tell us that shepherds did not abide in the fields
during the winter time. This of course
ruled out a “Christmas” birth! Since
there were shepherds abiding in the fields by night when He was born
(Luke 2:8), we assumed that this ruled out any birth from the months of
November through February. This seemed
conclusive evidence for a fall birth.
However, now we see evidence for His birth being in February. Could that really be possible, since
shepherds generally did not pasture their flocks in the fields during the
months from November to February?
Supporting this view is a comment by
Werner Keller in The Bible As History, who quotes a remark in the Jewish
Talmud which says in effect that “in that neighborhood the flocks were put out
to grass in March and brought in again at the beginning of November. They remained out in the open for almost
eight months” (p.332). However, there
were exceptions to this rule!
Herod died shortly before Passover
in B.C.4. Before his death, he had
hundreds of infants slain in Bethlehem.
During the last few months of his life, he was desperately ill, and
abode at a hot springs near the Dead Sea, and otherwise in Jericho, just north
of the Dead Sea – not at Jerusalem.
Furthermore, when the wise men visited him, he was still at Jerusalem
(Matt.2:1-3). He was troubled by what
the wise men told him, “and all Jerusalem with him” (v.3). This was before he went to the Dead Sea
region; this visit, therefore, occurred sometime before March, yet after the
birth of Christ. These events would push
the birth of Christ back to about the middle of February.
Could Christ have been born in February?
The “fact” that shepherds did not
abide in the fields during the winter months turns out to be more fiction
than true fact. It is an
overstatement. There was an important
exception. Alfred Edersheim in The
Life and Times of Jesus The Messiah, points out this fascinating fact:
“At the outset
it must be admitted, that absolute certainty is impossible as
to
the exact date of Christ’s Nativity – the precise year even, and still more
the
month and the day. But in regard to the
year, we possess such data as
to
invest it with such probability, as almost to amount to certainty.
“1. The first and most certain date is that of
the death of Herod the Great.
Our
Lord was born before the death of Herod, and, as we judge from the Gospel-
history,
very shortly before that event. Now the
year of Herod’s death has been
ascertained
with, we may say, absolute certainty, as shortly before the Passover
of
the year 750 A.U.C., which corresponds to about the 12th of April of the
year
4 before Christ, according to
our common reckoning. More particularly,
shortly
before
the death of Herod there was a lunar eclipse (Josh. Ant. xvii. 6. 4),
which
it
is astronomically ascertained, occurred on the night from the 12th to the 13th
of
March of the year 4 before Christ. Thus
the death of Herod must have taken
place
between the 12th of March and the 12th of April – or say, about the end
of
March (comp. Ant. xvii. 8. 1).
Again, the Gospel history necessitates an
interval
of, at the least, seven or eight weeks before that date for the birth of
Christ
(we have to insert the purification of the Virgin -- at the earliest six weeks
after
the Birth – the Visit of the Magi, and the murder of the children at Beth-
lehem,
and, at any rate, some days more before the death of Herod)” (p.704).
My own calculations, using the principles of mathematics
devised to ascertain ancient dates of the Jewish calendar, indicates that
Passover eve (Nisan 14) during the year 4 B.C. would have been April 11. Edersheim says Passover day (Nisan 15) was
April 12th. We are in complete agreement!
If Passover occurred around April 12 that year, and Herod
died a few days before that event, the murder of the children at Bethlehem
could have occurred in the first week or ten days of April. The flight of Joseph and Mary to Egypt could
have occurred during the last week of March.
The 40 days of purification could have been from about February 15 to March 26. Thus according to this scenario, Christ could
have been born in mid-February, 4 B.C.
But what about the shepherds “abiding in the fields”? Edersheim discusses this issue, as well. He informs us:
“And yet Jewish
tradition may here prove both illustrative and helpful. That the
Messiah
was to be born in Bethlehem, was a settled conviction. Equally so, was the
belief
, that He was to be revealed from Migdal Eder, ‘the tower of the
flock.’ This
Migdal
Eder was not the watchtower for the ordinary flocks which pastured on the
barren
sheepground beyond Bethlehem, but lay close to the town, on the road to
Jerusalem. A passage in the Mishnah leads to
the conclusion, that the flocks, which
pastured
there, were destined for Temple-sacrifices, and, accordingly, that the
shepherds,
who watched over them, were not ordinary shepherds. The latter were
under
the ban of Rabbinism, on account of their necessary isolation from religious
ordinances,
and their manner of life, which rendered strict legal observance unlikely,
if
not absolutely impossible. The same
Mishnaic passage also leads us to infer, THAT
THESE
FLOCKS LAY OUT ALL THE YEAR ROUND, since they are spoken of as
IN
THE FIELDS THIRTY DAYS BEFORE THE PASSOVER – THAT IS, IN THE
MONTH
OF FEBRUARY, when in Palestine the average rainfall is nearly greatest.
Thus,
Jewish tradition in some dim manner apprehended the first revelation of the
Messiah
from that Migdal Eder, where shepherds watched the Temple-flocks ALL
THE
YEAR ROUND. Of the deep
symbolic significance of such a coincidence,
it
is needless to speak” (Edersheim, p.186-187).
For 40 years, I assumed that shepherds did not abide in the
fields around Jerusalem or Bethlehem during the winter months, from
October-November till March-April. Many
have over the years insisted on this being one of the strong proofs that Christ
could not have been born in the month of December.
Well, Christ was not born in
December. But that does not mean He
could not very well have been born in FEBRUARY, 4 B.C.!!!
Throughout the ages, rabbinical sages and scholars have
written about a certain type of “star” – a tri-planetary conjunction – that
they said would appear in the constellation of Pisces near the time of the
birth of the Messiah – just before the time of His coming.
Dr. Alfred Edersheim, a famous Bible
scholar of the nineteenth century, points out that there is one illustrative
Jewish statement which, “though not astrological, is of the greatest
importance, although it seems to have been overlooked.” In his book The Life and Times of Jesus
the Messiah, Edersheim mentions the well known Jewish commentator
Abarbanel, or Abrabanel, who writes of the importance of the conjunction of
Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation of Pisces, in his Commentary on the
book of Daniel.
Says Edersheim:
“In his
Commentary on Daniel, that Rabbi laid it down, that the conjunction of
Jupiter
and Saturn in the constellation of Pisces betokened not only the most
important
events, but referred especially to Israel (for which he gives five mystic
reasons). He further argues that, as that conjunction
had taken place three years
before
the birth of Moses, which heralded the first deliverance of Israel, so it
would
also
precede the birth of the Messiah, and the final deliverance of Israel”
(p.211).
Edersheim points out that one of the smaller Midrashim, called
the “Messiah Haggadah” (Aggadoth Mashiach) begins as follows:
“A star shall
come out of Jacob. There is a
Boraita in the name of the Rabbis:
The
heptad in which the Son of David cometh – in the first year there shall
not
be sufficient nourishment; in the second year the arrows of famine are
launched;
in the third, a great famine; in the fourth, neither famine nor
plenty;
in
the fifth, great abundance, and the Star shall rise forth from the
East, and this
is
the Star of the Messiah. And it will
shine from the East for fifteen days, and
if
it be prolonged, it will be for the good of Israel; in the sixth, sayings
(voices),
and
announcements (hearings); in the seventh wars, and at the close of the
seventh
Messiah
is to be expected” (quoted by Edersheim, p.211-212).
This “heptad,” or period of “seven,” undoubtedly refers to
the final “WEEK” of Daniel 9:24-27 – the final seven years leading up to the
coming of the Messiah – the final seven years of this present age of misrule
and misconduct. Notice that at the end
of this “week” of seven years, the Messiah is to be “expected.”
Notice that the “star” of the
Messiah is predicted to rise in the East, in the fifth year – that is, two or
three years before His final coming!
Edersheim goes on to discuss three
other ancient Jewish Midrashim, which are entitled “The Book of Elijah,”
“Chapters about the Messiah,” and “The Mysteries of R. Simon, the son of
Jochai” –
“— where we read that a Star in the East was to
appear two years before the
birth
of the Messiah. The statement is
almost equally remarkable, whether it
represents
a tradition previous to the birth of Jesus, or originated after that
event. But two years before the birth of
Christ, which, as we have calculated,
took
place in . . . [year] 5 before the Christian era, brings us to the year 747
A.U.C.,
or
7 [years] before Christ [B.C.], in which such a Star should appear in the East.
“Did
such a Star, then, really appear in the East seven years before the Christian
era?
Astronomically
speaking, and without any reference to controversy, THERE CAN
BE
NO DOUBT THAT THE MOST REMARKABLE CONJUNCTION OF PLANETS
--
THAT OF JUPITER AND SATURN in the constellation of Pisces, which occurs
ONCE
IN 800 YEARS -- DID TAKE PLACE NO LESS THAN THREE TIMES in
the
year 747 A.U.C., or TWO YEARS BEFORE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST (in
May,
October, and December). This conjunction
is admitted by all astronomers.
It
was not only extraordinary, but presented the most brilliant spectacle in
the
night
sky, such as could not but attract the attention of all who watched the
sidereal
heavens.
. . . In the year following, that is, in 748 A.U.C., another planet,
Mars,
joined this conjunction. The merit of first discovering these facts –
of which it is
unnecessary
here to present the literary history –
belongs to the great Kepler . . .”
(p.212-213).
“Signs
and Seasons”
In the book of Genesis, chapter one, God gives us a
profound insight, if we are willing to believe it, as to the purpose behind His
creation of the sun, moon, and stars. We
read: “And God said, let there be lights
in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them
be for SIGNS, and for seasons, and for days and years” (Gen.1:14).
What is the significance of a
conjunction of the planets of Saturn and Jupiter in the constellation of
Pisces? The Hebrew name for the
constellation of Pisces is Dagim, “the Fishes,” and is connected with “multitudes,”
as in Genesis 48:26 where Jacob blesses Joseph’s sons, Ephraim and
Manasseh, saying, “Let them grow into a multitude, in the midst of the
earth.” The margin says, “Let them grow as
fishes do increase.”
Says Bullinger of this marginal
notation, “It refers to the fulfillment of Genesis 1:28, ‘Be fruitful and
multiply.’ The multitude of
Abraham’s seed is prominent in the pronouncement of the blessings, where God
compares his future posterity to the stars of the sky, and the sand upon
the seashore. ‘A very great multitude of
fish,’ as in Ezek.47:9” (Bullinger, The Witness of the Stars, p.93). Thus the constellation of Pisces is connected
with Israel, and the “seed” of Abraham.
It also, therefore, is connected to that special “seed,” who was to be
the Messiah.
As Paul wrote in the book of
Galatians, “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but
as of one. And to thy seed, which is Christ”
(Gal.3:16). Therefore, Paul went on,
“And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the
promise” (v.29). Thus the constellation
Pisces is directly connected, in every way, with the prophecy of the coming of
the “seed of Abraham” – the Anointed One, the Messiah – Jesus Christ!
Jupiter is the “royal” planet, and
is connected with the tribe of Judah, from which the royal Messiah was to
descend. In the prophecy in Genesis, we
read: “The sceptre [symbol of royal
power and authority] shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between
his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him [Shiloh – the Messiah] shall the
gathering of the people be. Binding his
foal unto the vine, and his ass’s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his
garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes” (Gen.49:9-11). Isaiah confirms that this Messianic king was to descend from David, of
the tribe of Judah (Isaiah 11:1-10).
Thus Jupiter is the Messianic planet.
Saturn, also, is a royal
planet. Its very name means, however,
“the hidden one.” And who is the true
“hidden one”? The Messiah Himself! He was prophesied to be “hidden” from the
purview of this world’s leaders (I Cor.2:7-8).
During His ministry, Jesus “departed, and hid himself from them”
(John 12:36). When Israel sins, God
says, “I will hide my face from them” (Deut.31:17). He adds, “And I will surely hide my face in
that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are
turned unto other gods” (Deut.31:18).
Isaiah says, “I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from
the house of Jacob, and I will look for him” (Isaiah 8:17). The prophet speaks of the Messiah, saying,
“Verily thou art a God that hideth thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour”
(Isa.45:15).
It should be apparent that when Jupiter, a
Messianic planet, goes into conjunction with Saturn, a Messianic planet, in the
sign of Pisces, a Messianic constellation, we have three signs of the
Messiah meeting together in the heavens – and the number “three” is the
number of “decision,” “the signature of God,” and “finality.”
Furthermore,
the incredible fact that this sign appeared in the heavens three times in
one year in 7 B.C. is even more testimony that something very established,
certain, and with finality, was shortly to occur with vast Messianic
implications!
No
wonder the wise men – however many of them there were – who were students of
astronomy, as well as ancient Hebrew prophecy, were startled, thrilled,
excited, and decided to take a long, expensive, arduous journey, to Jerusalem,
to inquire further about this expected Messianic king, whose portent they had
seen in the heavens!
Heavenly
Portent of the Messiah
Edersheim continues discussing the discovery of this conjunction by the great astronomer Johannes Kepler (1571-1630 A.D.). Kepler discovered the three laws of planetary motion, which later formed an indispensable part of Sir Isaac Newton's discovery of the law of universal gravitation. Edersheim writes of Kepler, saying:
“Kepler, who was
led to the discovery by observing a similar conjunction in 1603-4,
also
noticed, that when the three planets came into conjunction, A NEW, EXTRA-
ORDINARY,
BRILLIANT, and peculiarly coloured EVANESCENT STAR was visible
between Jupiter and Saturn,